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When the public gets it wrong (as usual)
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dave
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2008 9:15 am Posts: 1991
Car(s): 1965 Wasp, 1966 Bellett, 1967 Bellett, 1969 Florian, 1973 Bellett GTR, 1976 Buick Opel by Isuzu, 1978 Gemini van
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Heya, I was just doing a bit of sniffing around on the 'net and found this random site that purports to have a picture of every vehicle, ever. There were plenty of Isuzu cars featured, with separate sections for the Bellel, Bellett and Bellett 1600GT... here's a link to one that got it a bit wrong, though: http://dayerses.com/isuzu-bellett-gemini.htmlThe original Isuzu Gemini was indeed marketed as the 'Bellett Gemini' in Japan, but one of the pictures includes my white Bellett sedan and another is Brett's twin cam Wasp! Both cars have had a presence on the net for a long time, so it's almost no surprise that pics come up every now and then, but this one was a bit left field! Cheers, Dave
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Sat Nov 24, 2012 11:20 am |
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GTtoo
Joined: Sun Feb 01, 2009 2:51 am Posts: 1034
Car(s): 1964 GT Isuzu Bellett
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Isuzu Bellett Gemini.....Muahahahahah !! Now that could have been an unusual looking beast. Did you put a "comment" in the comments section Dave ??
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Sun Nov 25, 2012 9:21 pm |
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dave
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2008 9:15 am Posts: 1991
Car(s): 1965 Wasp, 1966 Bellett, 1967 Bellett, 1969 Florian, 1973 Bellett GTR, 1976 Buick Opel by Isuzu, 1978 Gemini van
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Well, nah.. the Isuzu Bellett Gemini just looked like a Gemini with JDM mirrors. They kept the Bellett name for a year or so, then dropped it.
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Sun Nov 25, 2012 10:06 pm |
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JT191
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:05 am Posts: 543 Location: 12,450 miles away from the Big Warehouse in Melbourne
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dave wrote: They kept the Bellett name for a year or so, then dropped it. It says a lot about the name recognition and reputation of the Bellett and the company's feeling about being forced into building the GM design, when the Bellett 108 (second generation) was already designed. They took a big step back in technology with the change from the Bellett to the Gemini. They had the first fully independent suspension FR car, a proven race record with a respected model name, and loyal owners. The GM name might have been a benefit in western countries, but Bellett sales were primarily within Japan, where the involvement of a western company would not necessarily have been seen as a good thing. Thankfully the Gemini proved not to be another Gremlin, Pacer, or Pinto (though popular rumor on that subject shows most get that "wrong" also). But consider how much more it might have been if 1974 marked the introduction of a PR108 Bellett, capped off with a new GT-R powered by the 1.8 liter DOHC engine or even fuel injection. One thing I hadn't considered which might require some additional leg work, is the fact that the Gemini name does not show up in motorsports until 1978 or 79, while the Bellett name continues. I had assumed this was a carryover of the older model, previously built race cars, and that the Gemini took four or five years of tuning work to get into a condition that it could be raced competitively. It may very well be that they started the Gemini on the track from day one, and dropped everything in the name after the hyphen (meaning Geminis competed under the Bellett name).
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Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:38 am |
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PR91
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2008 11:54 am Posts: 2544
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Mon Nov 26, 2012 12:47 pm |
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dave
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2008 9:15 am Posts: 1991
Car(s): 1965 Wasp, 1966 Bellett, 1967 Bellett, 1969 Florian, 1973 Bellett GTR, 1976 Buick Opel by Isuzu, 1978 Gemini van
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Heya JT,
I'd imagine, and I'm only speculating, that perhaps the Gemini wasn't race-worthy until the ZZ-models came out. I'm fairly certain the Isuzu Gemini didn't get a twin-cam until the second generation models, the squarer items that I think were styled in conjunction with some guys from Holden, who wanted a car that would line up stylistically with their VB-VC-VH-VK Commodore models.
It's pretty impressive how different the earlier and later cars look given they share the glasshouse area and doors.
So yeah, I just can't remember seeing any specs or a brochure or anything with an early (TX-TC-TD to us) Gemini with a twin cam; but there are plenty of references to ZZ/T and ZZ/R (I can never remember if the T is Track or Touring and if the R is Road or Race!!!) in the later shape.
You'd know dude, so let us know!
Cheers,
Dave
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Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:11 pm |
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JT191
Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:05 am Posts: 543 Location: 12,450 miles away from the Big Warehouse in Melbourne
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dave wrote: I'd imagine, and I'm only speculating, that perhaps the Gemini wasn't race-worthy until the ZZ-models came out. I'm fairly certain the Isuzu Gemini didn't get a twin-cam until the second generation models... That is pretty much the exact same thing that I was thinking when I shoveled through the race results. And I think we were both looking at the situation from the perspective of fans of the company who knew another big engine model would be released on such-and-such date and that people would just wait four or five years for this to happen. But I don't think we would have the same thought if we were semi-professional race car drivers, standing in Winter, 1974, Japan, trying to figure out what the heck we were going to drive on the track next season, up against whatever Nissan, Toyota, and everyone else had just released. Racing today is more about buying the car that is most favorably classed, and only a fool goes onto the track to defend the honor of the brand they love. I think driver's had more brand loyalty in the past. The Mustang/Camaro rivalry started the same time, and still lives on. Isuzu/Nissan were big names and at each others throats. They both lived by the "Win on Sunday, Sell on Monday" mindset. Isuzu strongly supported racing from 1965 (or earlier) through 1991, with outright factory teams, factory funded independents and tuners, and a legion of privateers. The factory has a lot of motivation to keep the drivers from moving to another brand of car. The tuners who made their name building and winning in Belletts, are not going to switch car brands or quit racing for four or five years to wait for Isuzu to release another hot car. And the privateers are not going to quit racing for four or five years until their favorite company makes another really hot car. I'm imagining that conversation between drivers in 1974 would be more along the lines of trying to pick out a class that one of the new Bellett-Geminis would be competitive in. Between two door and four door, and the engine sizes available, chances are all the former Bellett drivers found a different class to race Geminis in.
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Wed Nov 28, 2012 5:09 am |
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