What wheel and tire sizes were original on Belletts and what sizes fit and work well without clearance problems? Especially concerning the offset measurement.

Brett mentioned to me a few weeks ago that for mags the following is the go:

13" - +20 to +22 fit ok

14" - +22 and +23 fit ok

That was very handy, as I'd just bought a set of 13" Watanabe alloy wheels (genuine!) off eBay without checking the offset... but it turned out to be OK.

I'm sure some other people can fill in the blanks, yeah?

I found my "new" alloy wheels few months ago also with the help of internet. They are japanese Bridgestone Mombasa R2 wheels (manufactured in 1979) and I think their style fits well for my Bellett. Then my fellow Bellett enthusiast found me the right size center cups. The only problem was, that the stickers on these cups were "British Leyland" so they had to be removed immediately. But fortunately few weeks ago I found a firm that manufactured brand new stickers for the cups. I photographed the center of the steering wheel and I wanted the font to be the same style in those new stickers.

The results can be seen in the photos below. The tyres, Cooper Trendsetter, were ordered from the USA last year.

The Mombasa wheels look nice. Wasn't there a original 117 Coupe wheel that looked similar to that? If not, those would look good on the 117 as well.

And good detail with the dome profile stickers. How did you find someone to make those in less than a huge bulk quantity?

The picture looks like 185-60-13, is that right?

I've read different statements that the original wheels ranged from 13x4 to 13x5.5. The offset was said to be 20-25 mm. Tires were somthing like a 5.6x13, which translated over to 175-70-13 in the new tire measurement system. Is that right?

I asked a few Japanese people about which wider wheel and tire sizes fit, and got cryptic answers that were basically "That depends on the car", as if every one is different.

The way the rear quarter panel and wheel arch is made so that it covers the top of the tire sidewall, and the arcing swing of the rear axle, it looks like there is not a whole lot of space for wide tires without hitting something.

MrJ! I want those center caps!

Do you have the name of the company that manufactured those stickers, or can you get some more?? I don't have any center caps and when I find some having the Isuzu writing would be the finishing touch!

Those wheels definitely suit the car too, they look great with the little white wall.

Cheers,
Ross.

Hi!

The original tire size is 5.60x13 ( = 155x13 or 165x13) or 5.60x14. In my original workshop manual the wheel width is mentioned 4½" so I think 5,5" is not the original size (my original steel wheels are 4½" too), but who knows. We have noticed here that there a lot small differences in Belletts and you can't really rely on any documents or specs.

The tires which I have now are 165x80x13 steel belt tires. I especially wanted higher profile tires, because I think 13" wheels with low profile wheels look a bit too tiny. Of course, lower profile wheels look more sporty and aggressive, but for me the original look has become more important and a 41 year old car don't need to look like modern racer, I think.

I've sent an e-mail to this sticker company today and asked if they deliver stickers abroad. We'll wait and see what they answer. I'll write more about that when they answer.

Cheers,
"Mr J"

You're right, 5.60x13HR or something like that for original. I don't think new 13 inch steel wheels exist (are available) any more. Someone suggested 1960's Nissan small cars and even Toyota Corolla, but none of them had wheels as narrow as 4 1/2 inch.

I found a couple charts converting the old wheel sizes to newer wheel sizes:
http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiretech/ ... chart.html

5.60-13 comes out to be 165R13 or 165-80-13, which calculates out taller than my guess of 175-70-13. I don't think they sell 165 width tires any more. I guess the good news is that there are quite a choices for wider tires in 13, 14, and 15 inch that keep the same diameter tread, depending on what the width limit is to fit between the fender and the wheel well.

Thanks Mr J, much appreciated!

The RS Watanabe website actually lists Belletts in their wheel fitment list. They show this size under the "Conformity" column: B13-55 +16, which appears to be a 13x5.5 with a 16 mm offset. And in the "Conformity is Greatest" column, they show B14-55 +15, which would be a 14 x 5.5 with a 15 mm offset. The style is B Type.

That seems a little conservative on width.

But they have a customer's car pictured with larger wheels:
A　14-65　+16　114.3/4　ブラック　　185/60-14

here is a note that the grille and tail lights on the car don't match the year of the car, a PR95.

I've got 14x195's on my sedan although the offset is completely wrong (I'm using spacers to solve this) the actual width is about right. Any wider than 195 and I would be having clearance issues both front and back.

Another bit of information from Japan. I am being told that 13x5 1/2 inch wheels in a 16 mm offset with 175-70-13 tires fit perfectly. (I think that is a shorter tire than what the group determined was the correct diameter of 175-75-13 [165-80-13 for original]).

A 13x6 wheel with a 21 mm offset was said to work with a 5 mm spacer. No details on the tire, the comparison might be with the same 175 width tire. So a 13x6 with a 16 mm offset might fit without a spacer.

It sounds like there is a clearance issue on the inboard side of the wheel and tire, against the frame and fender skirt, and the issue is to find a wheel that has a shallower offset when the wheel and tire width is increased.

This is conflicting with the visual appearance of the tires being very close to the fender lips. I am going to have to move the suspension arms through their range of movement and measure tire clearances. I would really like to use a 14x6 wheel with a 195-60-14 tire. Even if the bolt pattern is different, that is a standard tire size for the rest of my little fleet. But finding an appropriate 14x6 wheel with a sub-16mm offset is going to be a challenge.

the guys that use 14"X6" wheels over here use the +22 or 23 items, and they fit perfectly with 185/60X14 tyres.
some 195 tyres will fit, as different tyre makes fit differently to others, due to the way each manufactuer designs the sidewall, tread shoulder, and the tread design itself.
there are alot of aftermarket wheels made in that 14"X6" configuration, especially Minilite replicas.

this info comes from a well known Bellett owner in Australia who has been involved with Bellett's for the best part of 30 years, and in the wheel and tyre industry for over 20 years, so he's tried just about every combination thought of for wheels and tyres under a Bellett.

i'd be very carefull with getting these wheel and tyre sizes and offsets correct, as the 13" wheel info you have there seems to be very different to what we have found.
my GT is a case in point. it uses 13"X6" wheels with a +20 offest with 175/70X13 tyres, and they JUST fit under the outer lip on the rear.
i be worried about a +16 on the rear, as these, IMHO, would definitly not go under the rear.

OK, I'd rather have two conflicting sources than one source that I can't trust confidently.

I think this has turned from a research question to a measurement question. That's OK, time to work more on the mechanicals and less on the shopping.

I'm seeing Watanabes in 14x6 and 21 mm offset available used almost all the time. I have never seen the 16 mm offset, and they don't make a shallower one in that size. If I can disprove the Japanese information, wheels are readily available and cheap. If I find out they are correct, I am forced to look for something other than Watanabes.

from what i can remember, the 16mm offset is suited to the 4 stud Datsun and Toyota stuff, like 1600's and Corolla's??

the reason i say/ask this, is that 99% of Datsun and Toyota wheels, while being the correct stud pattern are the wrong offset by 6-10mm, depending on the tyre used.

those 14X6 +21 that you are looking at would go veeeeeeerrrrrrryyyyyyyy close i'd say. they may need a couple of mm machined from the mounting face, but 99% of wheels will allow this as they have alot of materail there to begin with.
again though, a "narrow" 185 tyre might be OK with the rims as they are, as opposed to a "wider" 185.

footnote: i say narrower and wider here for the same tyre size for good reason. we have found that some tyre brands are designed with a much squarer shoulder angle where the sidewall meets the tread, making the sidewall very straight, where-as some brands aren't as square at the shoulder, meaning the sidewall is slightly curved.
we've found that 2 tyres that are maked as the same size from different brands will fit the car itself differently. the square type tyres can hit the outer lip when the suspension is on "droop", and the curved type will miss comfortably.
for your info, i use "Falken" brand tyres on my GT, as they are the curved type 175. the "Bridgestone" 175's we first tried wouldn't fit at all.

JT, great example of the GTR, you know how that gets me goin'. The larger wheel and tyres fit inside those rear arches and really fills every thing out. My little beast previuosly had 185x75x13 on those same imitation spoke mags. Fitted tight but comfortably. Had a more square profile, looked clumsy. The smaller 175x70x13 Bridgies, more rounded walls, I've got on now were bought for their cheapness originally but turned out to be a more flexible and smoother ride, all round better performance, added to giving a more original appearance.
Does anyone know what those mags are and what they originally fitted?

Hello all,
For those of you in Oz , Performance Superlites are available to order -
13x6 23p 111 backspace ,14x6 26p backspace 115mm , & 15x6 24p 113 b/space .
There is a 13x5.5 19p 101mm b/s also , but why would you want them ? . Performance Challengers are available
in 14x6 23p & 13x5.5 19p . I have fitted all these sizes to various belletts' .
The other offsets you mention (wheels from datsun/toyota etc ) can be fitted , but you have to watch your
tyre size . My ex Ben Barker GT has old Cheviot mags off a cortina re-inserted to Bellett stud pattern and can only fit 165/80x13 to it .
- Craig
p.s. I'd attach photo's if I could work out how to do it !

i thought i would throw mine up,
16 x 8 +35 rear
16 x 7 +35 front
Rays Engineering
205/40/16 Toyo Proxes4
Please dont use me as a guide
As this has taken a bit of work to fit but looks evil as .
Steve

mr j ..how did ypu go with the stick on wheel centres im also chasing them . i have some horn buttons coming fronm uk regards dave

I managed to dredge this one up as a topic.
I need to find some wheels to fit over larger rotors and big calipers.

My first response from a different Japanese source was 13x5.5 inch with a +16 mm offset.

I explained that the rotors would not fit under a 13 inch wheel, and the second response was 14x6 with a +16 mm offset.

I am unsure of the tire the adviser was using, but I want to use a 195 width tire, and I am very worried about the rear fender clearance. I am thinking that I can add a 5 mm spacer to a +21 mm offset wheel, a lot easier and less expensive than shaving five millimeters off of a +16 mm wheel.