E85, Fuel Lines & Hoses

[Gareth]

In the top paragraph you will see that it states that -6 and up on the 200 series has the antistatic liner, the black stuff is what has been used and passed on a street registered hotrod at work.

this is the catalouge that the info came from

Im installing -6 in my speedway car, would post photos of the F100 but it is against company policy to post photos of customer cars without their written consent...

Hope this clears things up a little.

[Chuff]

Thanks Biggvl,

That's pretty much how I understand it. For E85 you need the inner anti-static lining which begs the question, what would you use the 400 Series hose for? It's E85 rated, but lacks the inner lining and even the manufacturers recommend against using it for fuel. What's the deal with that?

Also, is an engineering report E85 specific?

I'm in the situation where I'm going from carbie to EFI, and as such I need to build a suitable fuel system. If, however, my car already had EFI from factory, say a VP Commodore, and I wanted to run E85, do I need an engineer's report? Why couldn't I simply install the fuel system using aluminium tubing with non E85 high pressure EFI rubber hose with clamps, and tell the engineer that I intend to run ONLY ULP, and then run E85 later? Not that I would, as it is not safe to do so, but how many factory EFI cars do you think would be out there running E85 without so much as even replacing the original hose?

Just asking the question, as it better rounds out a complete solution.

Thanks.

Chuff

[Gareth]

This may be helpful...

http://www.environment.gov.au/topics/en ... thanol-e85

[Holden202T]

I assume if you are doing E85 by the book onto any car that is EFI and doesn't have it from factory you would need to have it tuned and pass emissions tests ?

[Gareth]

not certain on that, will quiz the engineer on that one next time he is in, I'd assume that it would be similar to LPG, in that it would possibly need to certified, or maybe not seeing as that LPG is under pressure and E85 isnt (less emissions from E85, just like LPG)... hope that makes sense

[Chuff]

Thanks Biggvl,

Informative read, but the only mention of vehicular requirements that I read were:

It may only be used in cars that have been specifically built or modified to use E85. These include flexible-fuel vehicles and V8 racing supercars.

Short of taking my V8 Supercar to the local E85 pump, how is anyone suppose to know whether or not a modified vehicle is E85 compatible? Do you get a sticker for your number plate maybe, like LPG & Hybrid do? I'm not being argumentative, there's method to my madness in asking these questions. Reason being is my fuel tank is steel, not plastic, and as such will be prone to rusting out if E85 is used and allowed to sit, which will be the case as it will be restricted to club reg. Will the steel tank fail E85 compliance from an engineer's point of view? Plan is to use Sta-bil fuel additive, but that may not be enough to satisfy the engineer? Am I going to have to buy an after-market legal E85 fuel tank?

I've never actually seen the paper-work you get with a Engineers Report, so I don't know what details are listed. Does it explicitly state that the modified vehicle has been specifically built or modified to use E85?

Thanks.

Chuff

[Gareth]

Short of taking my V8 Supercar to the local E85 pump, how is anyone suppose to know whether or not a modified vehicle is E85 compatible? Do you get a sticker for your number plate maybe, like LPG & Hybrid do? I'm not being argumentative, there's method to my madness in asking these questions. Reason being is my fuel tank is steel, not plastic, and as such will be prone to rusting out if E85 is used and allowed to sit, which will be the case as it will be restricted to club reg. Will the steel tank fail E85 compliance from an engineer's point of view? Plan is to use Sta-bil fuel additive, but that may not be enough to satisfy the engineer? Am I going to have to buy an after-market legal E85 fuel tank?

No idea, the nozzles are the same size at the bowser... never seen an E85 plate sticker, come to think of it, the missuses VE wagon is flex fuel and has no stickers on the plates, only one inside the fuel door...
The best solution to the fuel tank problem its to add a tank liner, will never rust again, I use KBS tank sealer kits on all my cars, works great

I've never actually seen the paper-work you get with a Engineers Report, so I don't know what details are listed. Does it explicitly state that the modified vehicle has been specifically built or modified to use E85?

Im sure it will list the type of fuel in the tank at the time of emission testing - now a must in Victoria as at January this year...

[Chuff]

The best solution to the fuel tank problem its to add a tank liner, will never rust again, I use KBS tank sealer kits on all my cars, works great

Considered that. I was looking at this product: http://www.ppcco.com.au/por19.html

I still may consider using the coating, especially if it's required for engineering, but coatings won't stop the E85 from going off, whereas the Sta-bil will.

Chuff

[Gareth]

yes, won't stop the fuel going off, really neither would sta-bil... but will stop rusting of the tank. (the liner that is)

Rusting occurs because E85 is more hygroscopic than ULP - Hygroscopy is the ability of a substance to attract and hold water molecules from the surrounding environment. This is achieved through either absorption or adsorption with the absorbing or adsorbing substance becoming physically changed somewhat. (wikipedia)

So I don't understand how sta-bil will get the water out of your tank to stop the rusting... I look after a couple of car collections for customers, we have a policy of when the vehicle gets put away - the tank gets topped off, less surface area to attract water... Also less vapor produced, therefore fuel stays fresher for longer (because fuel components aren't off balance)...

Considered that. I was looking at this product: http://www.ppcco.com.au/por19.html

that stuff works fine also

[Chuff]

yes, won't stop the fuel going off, really neither would sta-bil... but will stop rusting of the tank. (the liner that is)

Rusting occurs because E85 is more hygroscopic than ULP - Hygroscopy is the ability of a substance to attract and hold water molecules from the surrounding environment. This is achieved through either absorption or adsorption with the absorbing or adsorbing substance becoming physically changed somewhat. (wikipedia)

So I don't understand how sta-bil will get the water out of your tank to stop the rusting... I look after a couple of car collections for customers, we have a policy of when the vehicle gets put away - the tank gets topped off, less surface area to attract water... Also less vapor produced, therefore fuel stays fresher for longer (because fuel components aren't off balance)...

I'm aware of E85 and its hygroscopic properties, and the problems it causes, but I'm just going on the research I have done. This is the exact stuff to buy from what I have read:

http://www.goldeagle.com/STA-BIL360-Per ... e-Campaign

I haven't used it but from the reading I've done a lot of people swear by it. It has to be this specific product, with the "vapour technology". Apparently it works its magic through the entire fuel system, lines and all, not just the tank. There is a Marine variant but I don't know how it differs from the above.

It might all be horse shit as far as I know, but who am I to discount the opinions of those that have gone before me.

Chuff