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Houston, we have a problem!
https://delcohacking.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=34&t=2074		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  Bellett.Boys [ Sun Sep 23, 2012 3:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Houston, we have a problem!
Heading back to Adelaide a couple of weeks ago from SA's Riverland...... lost a cylinder outside Murray Bridge.... yep, $250 tow back home. Finally got around to getting head off tonight, hoping for 'just' a valve or head gasket issue.... take a look at cylinder #4 below. WTF!

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What's that all about? There's a bit of piston missing! Any suggestions on how the hell this happened? Here's a closer look...

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And here are images of the head.

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Now, as Dave's mentioned, I was planning on driving the GT to the nationals... hence I've put this in the HELP! section.... as time is not on my side.

Does anyone have any recommendations on who I can approach to rebuild the engine - hopefully in SA!

HELP!

Thanks in advance, Paul.
Author:  Early GT [ Sun Sep 23, 2012 8:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Houston, we have a problem!
Hey Paul,
Looks like you got a lotta corrosion built up blocking water flow through and
past the top of the pistons especially #4, causing overheating and the meltdown. :o
Maybe you didn't have a corrosion inhibitor in your coolant for a period of time.
I have just had my GT engine rebuilt, wasn't in a sorry state like yours, just worn and leaking
some oil. I used a set of Gemini pistons and rings I bought 4 years ago which had to be machined
In height and for circlip ring recesses to suit bellett gudgeon pins so my original rods could be used.
This means I have an old set of Bellett pistons you can have if you want to
do a patchup job, but you will still need the block and head unblocked :oops:
Cheers, Lewis
Author:  gt orphanage [ Sun Sep 23, 2012 9:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Houston, we have a problem!
i can send you a manifold gasket if you need 1. It would not be unreasonable for a machine shop to do the work in a couple of weeks, gemini pistons as Lewis mentioned are available new you can modify the gt rods to suit or a set of gemini rods will match you crank. As they share bearings. Be carefull if they want to acid dip the block as cam shaft bearings are a little hard to find you may need to use the old ones :?:
Author:  Glenn [ Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Houston, we have a problem!
those water passages look pretty blocked up, so an internal clean would be needed.
Heed the advise on the cam bearings too !

I hope you can get it sorted and make the Nats Ok.
Author:  oz_toffa [ Mon Sep 24, 2012 8:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Houston, we have a problem!
with that amount of damage, your very likely to need oversized pistons anyway as that number 4 bore will be quite deeply scratched and worn.
the heads cooling galleys are more blocked as you look back from number 1. quite a build up of corrosion-calcium in the head.

that all said, its not often a Bellet engine does something like that. Hope she is back running for the Nationals :)

let us know if there is anything you need help with.

Cheers


OZ
Author:  BELLETT69 [ Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Houston, we have a problem!
Paul
Regretfully not really answering your question on who to rebuild the motor at this late stage prior to Nationals but just a thought, surely one of the guys in SA would have a running engine that you could borrow for the Nats. I know this would change the look of your car but only under the bonnet.
Just a thought
Cheers Steve
Author:  Farmer [ Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Houston, we have a problem!
Hi Paul, mate, that is sad! :(
It does look pretty melty, but there is another possibility if you discover that the water wasn't blocked, though it is likely to be, my Florian alloy head was all blocked when I got it. Strange though that I was able to drive to the 2011 Nats & back with the temp needle just under the red bit without this happening.

Sometimes a top ring can break up, and the little bits move up & down in the groove, wearing it untill they break through & come up on top of the piston. Are those bits if ring sitting on top of the piston? And the dents in the head surface look like ring bit dents. This is what happened to my first motor in 1977. Same result though, there will probably be bore scoreing needing a re-bore. (Though back then I was still at school, so I was given a good used piston by Ted Freeman, a set of rings from Gary and bought a $10 head gasket. I smoothed the bore score with emery & put it back together. I did about 20,000 mile on that motor, then sold the car to a mate. It used a little oil, nothing serious. Tuff motors.)

Perhaps a borrowed motor will give you more time, otherwise I hope theres a machine shop looking for work. Best of luck. We want you at the Nats!

Cheers, Matt.
Author:  Bellett.Boys [ Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Houston, we have a problem!
Hey thanks guys for the replies. Yeah as Matt sort of suggests, the more I look into local machine shops, the more I'm told there's no chance it'll be done before the Nats. There are very few machinists left in Adelaide I'm told, and the good ones are naturally very busy. And the last thing I want is a quick fix. If its come to this (a full rebuild), I may as well take the time and opportunity to get it done properly.

OZ - I'm assuming you're right re oversize pistons, as apparently the original owner had engine apart no less than 5 times, swapping standard vs high-compression pistons etc, so one would have to assume it has been bored out before.

Greg - thanks for the heads up on the acid dip issue, and for the offer of a manifold gasket. I'd already gone out and bought a VRS kit prior to taking the head off... in the hope that it was just a valve issue or a busted head gasket.

Lewis - yes, while I'm new to taking an engine apart, I did look at those blocked galleys and think 'overheated' to myself... I've always run good coolant in her, but I've only had her 4 years.

Glenn - I hope still to be at the Nats... sans GT it looks now.

Steve - anyone around the BCCV wanna rebuild my motor, as it seems my options here in SA are limited?

I don't usually do smilies... but I tell you what.... very, very sad face! :cry:

Plus another sad face from my GT: :cry:
Author:  gt orphanage [ Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Houston, we have a problem!
what gasket kit did you buy :?: if it's a luv kit check it as they have round and square ports but the wrong way round.
p.s i am not trying to sell a gasket as i can't get them to make more at the momment and i only have 2 for me.
Author:  mrflibbles [ Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Houston, we have a problem!
If it helps Kreig engines in mount barker have done both my isuzu heads, and i didnt tell him what they were till after i dropped them on the counter. He took one look at them and said they look like they are of a bellett! won me over! not sure if that will help you with yours but i find it nice that the person fixing it actually knows what it is.

Shame to see that its let go before the nats but at least it was close to home and not out in the middle of no where.
Author:  Glenn [ Wed Sep 26, 2012 3:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Houston, we have a problem!
I visited a local shop selling repro etc Ford parts last week who has some liquid for cleaning out waterways. You have to run it in the engine for about 10 hors or so then flush and re-fill with your favourite stuff. According to the guy, it works magic. Costs about $80 for 5 litres though.
Might be worth looking at if you don't do a hot tank on the engine and poke out the worst of the crud beforehand.

They also had stuff for cleaning aluminium, which is why i went there. A bit dearer.

glenn
Author:  Retroasted [ Wed Sep 26, 2012 9:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Houston, we have a problem!
Just a question: Did the car suddenly have pre ignition or pinging, or had it developed? Would from the increased heat from the blocked passages cause pre igniting of the petrol in that cylinder to then eat the piston and for the rest to happen? Sorry its not helping your cause just curious. Best of luck and hope to see the car happy and healthy at the nationals
Author:  Bellett.Boys [ Fri Sep 28, 2012 11:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Houston, we have a problem!
Hey Greg - as usual you are right re manifold gasket, so it would be great to buy your 'spare' if the offer is still there. I'm happy to collect at Nationals if OK with you? PM me with $$$ if you like so I can have right money on me...

Retroasted - about 20 mins earlier, the engine had a brief tappet noise that disappeared with lower revs... then same again when finally let go, although lost power that time and pulled off road. Unfortunately car will be a no show at Nats.
Author:  GTtoo [ Sat Sep 29, 2012 8:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Houston, we have a problem!
Hey Paul. Dave mentioned the let down last week and we were all hoping it was an easier fix. You won't regret getting the rebiuld done properly and in good time. You're still off to Merimbula tho, got to be a positive. Almost smiley face..... :|

B.
Author:  degruch [ Sat Sep 29, 2012 11:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Houston, we have a problem!
Glenn wrote:
I visited a local shop selling repro etc Ford parts last week who has some liquid for cleaning out waterways.


If you can remember the name Glenn, let us know. I've no doubt my GT looks pretty similar, judging from the gunk floating around in the coolant last time I looked.
Author:  Glenn [ Sat Sep 29, 2012 11:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Houston, we have a problem!
here is a link to their web page..... down near the end is the radiator stuff. I couldn't get the link to it to work but you might.

http://www.rubberconnection.com.au/

The guy there is Geoff. very helpfull guy.


Factory 6
355-365 South Gippsland Hwy
Dandenong, 3175
AUSTRALIA
Phone: 03 9799 1012



glenn
Author:  gt orphanage [ Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Houston, we have a problem!
i would study a cooling catch systems 1st or it will end up in your radiator and overheat :?:
Author:  Glenn [ Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Houston, we have a problem!
You are supposed to drain system and fill this stuff then run it for Upto ten hours I think.

It looks like coloured water.
Author:  gt orphanage [ Sun Sep 30, 2012 8:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Houston, we have a problem!
my thoughts :?: is if you stir up the crap in the block it will end up in the radiator and overheat, you can get catch tanks that go into the top hose or a sock filter you would have to be on to regular cleaning during the process and a while after you dump it :?:
my 2c worth.
Author:  Glenn [ Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Houston, we have a problem!
I never used it, just what they told me. He said it dissolves the crap and it turns black. Hard to believe it could fix major blockage though like above so I tend to agree with you.


Worse still. The pipes going to the back of the head etc. Are bound to blocked also. In my Old GT they were blocked and corroded through in paces so all new pipes needed. I bought new banjo fittings and Bundy pipe from one of the hose doctor places and brazed them up, thenhad them plated.
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