Okay this may confuse, iritate or just plain annoy a lot of people ...
it is just a question.

Does anyone know if a 289 Windsor will fit between the shock/frame rails
and/or how much engine setback is needed (firewall can be relocated) ?

and no this is not being done to a what some would consider a restorable car, if at all; just asking.

Cheers
Anon

It would be possible the towers would have to go. wasp chassis,wasp inner guards, it would look like a bellett sedan 9 inch rear end.
It would be quicker and easier to bless it with a late model twincam turbo ? This could be on the cards NOT A DREAM on the drawing board.

what about a 4g63 DOHC mitsi motor? plenty around cheap and possibility of turbo? easy enough to get one out of a mitsi or hyundai, several different g/box options too....
just putting it out there!

yes that is 1 option 4g63t i have a soft spot for mitsi but this project maybe a ca18t .

not that i have been looking at mitsi motors much, i just like them (enough to know that i would need to modify the sump to make it fit!)!... ca18t would be nice too...

Yep I have thought about all the 4 cylinder options.
What I was wondering is if anyone has played around with big engine in the sedans.
V8s in Luvs and Wasps is fairly straight forward.
Has anyone sat one inthe engine bay just to see ?
A V8 that is. The Windsor is the smallest I believe.

Cheers

mmmmmm.....
V8 in a wasp
GREG...where r u........

Ooooooooo .....

615 Sonny Leonard big block with 1500hp would be sweet.

I think it would be a tight fit Rob, but i may be wrong! what is the smallest v8 engine that was/is produced? i know the 289 is smallish but how does a rover v8 compare?

The Rover as far as I am aware is wider than the 289 as the Rover is based on the old nailhead Buick engines which are also the basis for the early V6 in the Commodores.

On the tight fit ... the higher you drop it from the easier it fits

Cheers

This one might more palatable with that alternate universe Isuzu V8 of Chevy origin, plucked from the R7 for use in a MX1600 super car, eventually evolved with direct injection and variable valve timing and all the good stuff that Ford, GM, and Chrysler still haven't managed to get into their retro muscle cars.

Isuzu does use the Chevy V8 in their commercial trucks. Some of the racing series require the engine and chassis come from the same manufacturer, but no one has tried to get one past tech inspection. I think it says it's a Vortec 6000.
Maybe gas got expensive and drag racing went out of style, but not many people are tubbing out cars anymore.
Or it might be that the last of the Isuzu cars lived up to the light weight and above average handling template of the Bellett, and the weight of a much larger engine would really mess up the whole thing.

The Cadillac V8 engines are popular for the Fiero engine swaps. It would be hard to find a car with a tighter engine bay, so that one has to be about as compact as is possible. Those have variable valve timing too.

If completely changing out the engine is on the table as an option, why not consider changing from carb to fuel injection? They used to say that alone would increase power output by 20%. EFI on the original engine? Or widen the search through four cylinder transplant engines to EFI.

I'm thinking of going with a 4XE1 engine, mostly because I'm a carb-athiest. I've seen the Australian engine swap pictures, but the manifold looks photo shopped.
For a Rocky Auto style retro-mod, I'm thinking a 4XE1 with those hideously expensive individual throttle bodies. The real adventure kicks in with converting a 76 mm transmission from FWD to RWD. Removing the diff, filling in the unused openings, extending the output shaft, making a new tail piece to accept the driveshaft.
The 4XE1 is 1.6 liter, DOHC, and in stock US market spec matches the power of the Bellett GTR G161W. Header, exhaust, and aluminum pulley and flywheel, and it bumps up to 150 HP. The individual throttle bodies and programmable computer push it up into what the 60's race spec would have been. The weight is the same. And this would all be reliable enough for daily driving. Turn the key and it fires on the second rotation of the starter.

Hmmm,.....some pretty radical ideas. Methinks there would be some cutting required to fit a 289, then the front bumper might drag.

I used to own a '68 Dodge Monaco with a 440 cu in (7.3 lt) Iron V8. Plenty torque! I also had my only Bellett (gold ratt) at the time. A car mate had an idea - Park them side-by-side. Swap the motors. End up with a cool, economical boulevard cruiser 18 & a half foot long, and a Bellett that sounds like Thor.
Interesting mind picture.
AND completely do-able, given one of those bottomless buckets of money! (Well, I've seen V8's in Prefects at the Summernats!)

Rotarys have been done since they were invented (sorry to remind you Brett!). It works. They are light, go hard & suck a lot of fuel. (Brett would possibly just say suck?) Just like a V8.

But I've had another thought -
Look for a badly hail totalled WRX STI. Now cut away all the sheet metal & leave the chassis & interior intact.
Next, take my spare teardrop shell from behind the shed & remove all the subframe & mechanical stuff.
Now lower the Bellett body down over the Sube base, and weld everywhere metal touches.
"BING" - Goes like STIk, Looks like Bellett!

Now leaving Dreamworld - Florian to polish.
Cheers, Matt.

I think the subaru engine and running gear is to wide for a bellett, might have to measure up my old subaru wagons for laughs!
what about one of those freaky 3-4 rotor engines?
me i am still looking for a cheap hyundai/mitsi with a 4g63, and possibly a sigma or rx7 5 speed to suit! but then my engines all still run so why am i thinking of making it more difficult?

We were beginning to wonder where you had got to, Rob . But it's good to see the "proffessor" is still out there.........speculating, speculating

Which ever way you go with this, the result will be interesting, to say the least.

I once saw an MG which had a triumph V8 shoe horned into it. When the old fella who was driving took off from a standing start, he ripped the strip

Interestingly, even the most hardcore Isuzu purists have little issue with playing around. We seem most willing to present our machines in which ever form possible and are fully accepting of mods, the more extreme, the better. However, when I spoke to a member of the Oldsmobile club and spoke of my GT as having a mild mod to the original engine, he asked me to simmer down or I'de risk having a public linching And that's NO BULL !!!

B.

Well let's see ....
A 289/302 Windsor will fit sort of :S
The shock towers don't have to go if the engine setback is 10 inches!!!
However the best thing would be to remove the sheetmetal above the shock mount, fabricate a new mount that ties the shock and top control arm mounts into the forward rollcage structure.
The firewall needs some mods, at least cut back the windscreen !! That gives plenty of room for the radiator oil coolers and thermo fans. The trans tunnel needs a little widening but that's not to difficult after the firewall cut.
Height isn't a problem though this depends on the aircleaner used.
The suspension front and rear plus brakes and diff will be addressed under another section.
Thanks for reading
These are just ideas at the moment.
Cheers
Rob

studied all this years and years ago lads.
a 289/302 windsor is the best option being that it's a 60 deg V8 meaning it's very narrow. this is exactly why other car makes used them in their "hotrod" version in the day. think sunbeam alpine that became the sunbeam tiger, ac ace that became the early shelby cobra, and even the bolwell nagari. in the bolwell case, holden was desparate to have their 308's in them, but they just wouldn't fit.... i know this from my old man and his own bolwell that he's owned since new and his involvement with the nagari's development.
speaking of his bolwell, it's now got a leyland P76 V8 in it, being a slighly bigger version of the rover V8, so i know what i'm talking about here too. the ONLY advantage of the rover/leyland is that it's all alloy, so it's light.... very light. even lighter than a holden red 6!!
as for anything that's 90 deg (chev, holden, rover/leyland, chrysler, ford cleveland, the lot)..... forget it. they are all waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too wide. don't be fooled like most are with the "little rover/leyland"..... mate, they are HUGE. even wider than a SB chev! they are only a small bore and make their capacity in the stroke, meaning a very wide block....
a 351 windsor is 60 deg, but as the block is taller, it also makes it wider across the inlet manifold.... again, too wide.
also forget anything that V6 multi cam.... isuzu included. sure, they are smaller in the block, but the heads are HUGE, and that makes them wider than some V8's!!
most V6's are the same prob. chev, holden, buick, etc are too wide being 90 deg. but a ford capri V6 is 60 deg and would be ideal.... if u can find one!!
youre on the right track tho Rob. ALOT of cutting and shutting is needed. one thing u have missed tho is that alot of work is needed in the pedals area, as the RH head goes straight thru the pedal assembly.... so a whole new pedal box idea is needed.

and yes, a V8 in a Wasp is possible.... and while I'm a thru and thru ford man, trust me when i say a 308 holden sits in a Wasp engine bay veeeeeeerrrrrrrrrryyyyyyy nicely! so liz.... greg doesn't have to worry about check that one now and i better get back to it!!

We have a front cut here that is used to set up the twin cams and may have swung a small block chev over it and well you would want to be keen never impossable but a big challange.

exactly Greg. and you're right... u'd have to be keener than keen with the mountain of work needed! we seriously looked at a 262ci chev V6 into my sedan nearly 20 years ago and found the length was good but width was a nightmare... hence the capri V6 idea. never went any further than a tape measure tho. have crunched the numbers for a Commodore V6 into the race car too but again if only it was about 150mm narrower it'd be ok... sure i could cut the towers out and make a new front end but then it's a case of being worth the trouble...

It comes back to a late model twin cam turbo engine will not weigh much more than the g150 and they will produce the same hp as a v8 [without the sound] but the end result would be .

and that's why I've stayed with 4 cylinder motivation in it. The weight penalty was another 50kg in the V6 alone without the bigger gearbox and everything else to make it work whereas a healthy 4 would make 3 quarters the power from far less weight. as we all know more horsepower is great but the extra weight is negated when u have to stop and turn it too. so 'power to weight' is what really counts!