bellett.net :: View topic - seam welding...nice, necessary, not worth it?

PR91 wrote:

My opinion..... Seam welding a Bellett is a waste of time. As they are, they're built like a tank.
I race one, with big suspension and all the rest, it's not seam welded, and is fine. It even has a lot of things removed that it doesn't need, and doors open and close like normal.
Sure, it has a cage in it, but it's not a space frame that goes all thru the car to suspension points and the rest.
My GT is fine with upgraded suspension for a road car too, and is even OK on a hoist with doors open. Again, built like a tank.
Webers / Solex's..... Unless you have a manifold, honestly, forget it. They are extremely rare. A Japanese owner I know well who has good Bellett connections over there has one on his GT, but it took him 10 years to find one.
I've only ever seen 1 in the flesh too.....
BTW, the sedan head is different to the GT head also, so while there are a couple of manifolds about for them, they won't fit a GT.
The GT had SU / Hitachi's on the standard too. Not a bad carb, but restrictive.
If you really want Webers on it, about the best thing to do is put a twin cam engine in it.
4 wheel disc is possible. My race car has them, with 4 spot front calipers, adjustable bias, etc. As to whether the parts used are available in Japan tho is another question!
Steering rack wise, they're really good standard. Where they fail is the rack mounts...... They are rubber mounted on later cars like what you described, and the rubbers perish, bolts come loose, etc. Is an easy fix tho.
The secret with Bellett handling is to modify them to get decent neg camber all round, and mount the front sway bar properly (the factory mounts are useless!).
Hope this helps.

Author:	ishigakisensei [ Fri Nov 06, 2015 1:21 am ]
Post subject:	seam welding...nice, necessary, not worth it?
Greetings, I do not currently own a Bellett GT, but there is one deteriorating about 300meters from my house here in Kyoto. My wife has called the parking lot company and has found out the car has not been fully abandoned, but is instead still owned. There is no guarantee that I will be able to get it for my father-son project and perhaps I am jumping the gun a bit. No matter though as I fell in love with the Bellett the first time I saw one racing at Tsukuba Circuit and later passed by an unnamed shop on my way to a family amusement park in Tochigi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnEBnezsASA The one down from me is the white color of the first Bellett in the video above but looks to be a '68-ish vintage. There is no real hurry to get a car, as my oldest son is not yet 5, but since it is so close to my house, I'm going for it. It looks to have original plates as both are severely faded and quite rare for a Japanese plate - it is a single Kanji and single number...... 京 5　. By contrast, my Sienta is..... 京都　502 . I want the car for obvious reasons but to get that old license plate is also a motivator. I don't want a race car or even a race car for the street. However, I would like a sporty tight car with disks all around and maybe Weber sidedraft carbs (if there is a real world performance benefit over the Solex) without the need for a roll cage. A new tighter steering rack would make a nice addition too. I did a search but came up nil with anyone here doing seam welding (I've seen it called stitch welding too) or that new epoxy that is supposed to work as well. So, has anyone done any seam welding in the Bellett and did it make a real difference and although I am in Japan where costs are different, can anyone comment on the cost-benefit ratio?

Author:	67GT [ Fri Nov 06, 2015 2:12 am ]
Post subject:	Re: seam welding...nice, necessary, not worth it?
Wow that place looks awesome. Looks like a Bellett Fastback right at the end of the video ?. In the shed on left hand side.

Author:	ishigakisensei [ Fri Nov 06, 2015 10:19 am ]
Post subject:	Re: seam welding...nice, necessary, not worth it?
That is correct. It is a fastback. I just happened upon this repair shop as the GPS guided me to the park right in front of him. I lived in Gunma at the time. Its called Maseru Repair Shop and it has a rather nice parking lot across from it. Here in Kyoto though.... The parking lot company gave the phone number of the owner of the car and my wife called him today. Typical story - the car hasn't been driven in 5 years because the shakken (road inspection and tax) expired and he never got around to taking care of it yet. But, yep.....yep.....yep....yep, he's going to get right on that soon. Oh well. At least he knows my interest and if he passes and his wife wants to unload it......I'm here. Wasabi Cars https://www.youtube.com/user/wasabicars on YouTube has a great (but frustrating) channel full of abandoned cars that yes oh yes, will definitely get fixed and reregistered rather than selling . I've seen it many times myself including a 1970s Land Cruiser 4 houses down from my wife's family and he'll never sell it but won't restore it either. I'm also working on securing a Honda NSR 250 abandoned at my local doctor's clinic that will be hauled off as trash on December 20th. Might as well go to me as some tow company. Everyone thinks that Japan is all and only Tokyo, but that city is a wasteland and so once you get off the beaten paths, you can find all kinds of hidden car/motorcycle treasures. Garage Rudi in Ota City, Gunma is a parking garage for local rich guys that includes a Packard and 2...TWO Mercedes-Benz Gullwings. Looks like I got excited about this Bellett without much cause. I'll keep my eyes open for another one, but also other opportunities for a father-son project.

Author:	PR91 [ Fri Nov 06, 2015 10:35 am ]
Post subject:	Re: seam welding...nice, necessary, not worth it?
My opinion..... Seam welding a Bellett is a waste of time. As they are, they're built like a tank. I race one, with big suspension and all the rest, it's not seam welded, and is fine. It even has a lot of things removed that it doesn't need, and doors open and close like normal. Sure, it has a cage in it, but it's not a space frame that goes all thru the car to suspension points and the rest. My GT is fine with upgraded suspension for a road car too, and is even OK on a hoist with doors open. Again, built like a tank. Webers / Solex's..... Unless you have a manifold, honestly, forget it. They are extremely rare. A Japanese owner I know well who has good Bellett connections over there has one on his GT, but it took him 10 years to find one. I've only ever seen 1 in the flesh too..... BTW, the sedan head is different to the GT head also, so while there are a couple of manifolds about for them, they won't fit a GT. The GT had SU / Hitachi's on the standard too. Not a bad carb, but restrictive. If you really want Webers on it, about the best thing to do is put a twin cam engine in it. 4 wheel disc is possible. My race car has them, with 4 spot front calipers, adjustable bias, etc. As to whether the parts used are available in Japan tho is another question! Steering rack wise, they're really good standard. Where they fail is the rack mounts...... They are rubber mounted on later cars like what you described, and the rubbers perish, bolts come loose, etc. Is an easy fix tho. The secret with Bellett handling is to modify them to get decent neg camber all round, and mount the front sway bar properly (the factory mounts are useless!). Hope this helps.

Author:	Glenn [ Fri Nov 06, 2015 9:53 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: seam welding...nice, necessary, not worth it?
looks like there maybe a GTR or two in that lot....or fakes. PR91 wrote: My opinion..... Seam welding a Bellett is a waste of time. As they are, they're built like a tank. I race one, with big suspension and all the rest, it's not seam welded, and is fine. It even has a lot of things removed that it doesn't need, and doors open and close like normal. Sure, it has a cage in it, but it's not a space frame that goes all thru the car to suspension points and the rest. My GT is fine with upgraded suspension for a road car too, and is even OK on a hoist with doors open. Again, built like a tank. Webers / Solex's..... Unless you have a manifold, honestly, forget it. They are extremely rare. A Japanese owner I know well who has good Bellett connections over there has one on his GT, but it took him 10 years to find one. I've only ever seen 1 in the flesh too..... BTW, the sedan head is different to the GT head also, so while there are a couple of manifolds about for them, they won't fit a GT. The GT had SU / Hitachi's on the standard too. Not a bad carb, but restrictive. If you really want Webers on it, about the best thing to do is put a twin cam engine in it. 4 wheel disc is possible. My race car has them, with 4 spot front calipers, adjustable bias, etc. As to whether the parts used are available in Japan tho is another question! Steering rack wise, they're really good standard. Where they fail is the rack mounts...... They are rubber mounted on later cars like what you described, and the rubbers perish, bolts come loose, etc. Is an easy fix tho. The secret with Bellett handling is to modify them to get decent neg camber all round, and mount the front sway bar properly (the factory mounts are useless!). Hope this helps.

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Author:	ishigakisensei [ Sat Nov 07, 2015 6:29 am ]
Post subject:	Re: seam welding...nice, necessary, not worth it?
Glenn wrote: looks like there maybe a GTR or two in that lot....or fakes. Due to the number of Belletts there at the time and still remain...and talking to him, I am inclined to believe that they are indeed real. Although not carved in stone, fakes/clones are frowned upon especially among old Japanese mechanics/tuners. Sure, it is possible, but if he were pushing a clone as the real deal then his shop reputation would take a beating. That is, unless you're Rocky Auto and have built a reputation on restomods.

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