Hi people,

I've put this information under the under-utilised "Bellett Historical Society", however that section of the website is locked and therefore cannot be discussed in an open forum. And given that an online forum is exactly that, a forum, I thought that the info should have an unofficial shadow here.

The full version is here:

viewtopic.php?f=29&t=685

However the numbers can be seen again here:

Model Year - Build Commencement - Chassis Number - Engine Number
1965------- September_1964------- 4014933--------- 312683
1966------- September_1965------- 4042963--------- 337370
1966.5----- February___1966------- 4057197--------- 347122
1967------- August____1966------- 4068769--------- 358216
------------ November__1967------- 4093588--------- <first late-windscreen vehicle>
1968.5----- May_______1968------- 4102647--------- 401895
1969.5----- January____1969------- 4111534--------- unknown
1970------- August____1969------- 4120013--------- 423733

This may help gauge when you vehicle was built!

Cheers,


Dave

PS - the first of the new windscreen cars was November 1967 not November 1966. I've just corrected the error.

I'll start the ball rolling on this one;

I've got two sedans; one is an early sedan with the teardrop tail lights, while the other has the more common hex-light tail end.

I'm more than happy to publish the numbers of those cars here, although I'm fine if there are people who don't wish to share their numbers; this is not designed to glean chassis numbers and steal identities!

However, what it might do is pique some interest.... although Bellett GT numbers are yet to be published, it was discovered recently that forum member PR91 Brett's Bellett GT is only two units older than GToo's car, which in turn is only 4 cars before mine! Strange but true.

But this section is for sedans.

My early sedan is - PR20-4048668. Given that they built 14,234 cars between September 1965 and February 1966, it would stand to reason, assuming that the rate of construction was fairly constant during that time, that my early sedan was built around November 1965.

My ratter sedan is PR20-4091804. During the 24 months between August 1966 and May 1968 when the 1968.5 (known to most people as the 1969 model), 33878 cars were built. This would put my car, again assuming that the rate of construction was constant, at about October or November 1967. This sedan is also the 1783rd-to-last built with the old windscreen shape, which ended in November 1967, so that's about correct.

Of course, there's no way to verify exactly when your car lobbed off the line, but this is an interesting exercise and gives me a lot more guidance than I had!

I hope other Bellett sedan owners can do a bit of investigating, have a bit of fun and hopefully learn something new about their cars that they did not already know!

Stay tuned for PR91 info when Mr PR91 himself gets his internet fixed....

Cheers,

Dave

How much relevance does the date on the wiring loom under the drivers floor mat (I think that's were it was) match to these charts?

I haven't actually pulled any of that stuff out of my cars!

My mate here has a Morris Marina TC and when I mentioned the above post, he advised that his loom was built in 1971, however no cars were actually constructed until 1972. This would make sense, as they probably weren't making the looms and threading them straight through the car hot off the press!

Interesting though - I will have to check my looms and see either way!

Cheers,

Dave

Thanks, Dave - I hadn't seen that info before.
"Barn Find"s Chassis is PR20-4025220. Anybody got an earlier one?
"Doris" is a MY '66 Auto - PR20-4055733 - puts her 7065 newer than the column shiftus.
(I'll check the others when I've got daylight)
Cheers, Matt.

Hi Dave, thanks for the chassis/eng info. That puts my '69 Auto - PR204104405 between May '68 and Jan '69 production and my engine definitely a GT (G161-347823) out of a '66 GT. Good info. Ta, Clyde, Update according to new info on GT engines...confirmed that the engine in my PR20 is from a '66 GT. cheers, clyde

Yeah! Me! (see above).

I'd really like to know what the chassis # was on that green 1964 black-badge floor-shift that was for sale on our forum. Probably PR-40000001 ahahahah just kidding.

hi guys i guess it doesnt count for me but the 65 i sold to STICKMAN chassis is pr20-4024950 i reckon bembokas x canberra car will beat all of us regards davo

dave ..what year would my current car be its chassis 4077114 eng g150-365534 .funny on the service book with the guys details he came from shakespeare avenue in brayville the details are dated 2-10-67 ,is this the last of the run? for 67 regards davo

Bellett GT details will be on here soon.
will also post the full time line on Bellett's from model break down (ie: PR number and the related spec it was), to when each model started and finished. and trust me, there's more than you may think!!

I have all this amongst my mountain of Bellett stuff here..... somewhere.
have to post my brochures one day, and my own cars as well.

The rule of thumb I was using was to assume the rate of build was fairly constant.

If so,between August 1966 and November 1967 they were building cars at an average of 1654.6/month.

You car was built 8,345 cars after the August 1966 update (1967-model), so the guess would be, at a rate of 1654.6 per month, that yours was built approximately January 1967.

This is obviously an educated guess based on the above numbers. It wouldn't be impossible for the car to take 10 months to get from build to sale though so that seems to check out OK!

The next update was the windscreen change - they made another 16,474 cars after yours before that change, and 25,533 cars before the 1968.5 (commonly known as 1969 model) came on stream, so yours is nowhere near the end of the run - in fact it seems to have been built about a third of the way through.

Bemboka Bellett Bloke's 1964 was the one I was thinking of; the one sold through the forum that was green. That'll have a low number, I'll bet!

Cheers,


Dave

thanks dave much appreciated gary hasnt revealed his low number yet ?????? regards davo

I don't suppose Gary would mind me posting the number - I knew it, I just wanted to see any other early teardrops out there. He bought it from the original owner who said it was the first one sold in Sydney - August 1964. Probable, I think. PR20 4012539. Special!
Cheers, Matt.

Early-as!

ok, here goes... alot more info, so get comfy:

Bellett model numbers and their respective specs (ie: what each chassis prefix means).
The "PR" is across all Bellett's. "P" is 'passenger'. "R" is Bellett or derivitive.

*This coding was before and after Bellett production. examples:*
"PH" was the Isuzu/Hillman Minx.
don't know what the Bellel was. anyone have this info please??
*edit 20/9/10- "PS" was Bellel*
"PA" was Florian and 117 coupe (they used the same floorpan as each other, with different mechanicals and panels).
"PF" was Isuzu Gemini RWD.
adding to this, "K" is for 'commerical-light", and "R" for 'Bellett', hence "KR" on the Wasp. Express wagon was KR as well, as it used all Wasp underpinnings with a different body, but used a "V" suffix for 'van'. This code then gets confusing with the Wasp panel van using the "V" suffix as well, but with "PA" added after that!! The "V" would suggest that it used a modified Express body (like a wagon body without side windows as many other companies did), but it was clearly a Wasp cab with a separate panel van body behind, not a modified Express body!!
"KB" was KB utes (Chev Luv) and early Rodeo's, as they used the same chassis with a different body attached (actually a Wasp chassis that was 3 inches wider thru the middle).

each PR and KR number is listed below, and please note that I'm NOT saying that the "extra" codes (ie: the D, G, W, N or V that appear here) were stamped on individual body shells. they are here as they were the codes used by Isuzu itself to identify each specification they built.

Models:
PR10 – 1300 sedan – only ‘standard’ – 2 & 4 door.
PRD10 – 1800 diesel sedan – only ‘standard’.
PR20 – 1500 sedan – ‘standard’, ‘deluxe’ & ‘sport’ – 2 & 4 door.
PR30 – 1300 ‘B type’ sedan.
PRD30 - 1800 diesel ‘B Type’ sedan.
PR40 – 1500 ‘B type’ sedan.
PR50 – 1600 sedan – ‘deluxe’ & ‘sport’ – 2 & 4 door - early OHV, late SOHC.
PR60 – 1800 sedan – ‘deluxe’ & ‘sport’ – 2 & 4 door – SOHC.
PR80 – 1500GT & 1500 ‘Coupe’. (1500 Coupe was a GT body fitted with sedan running gear, including the single carb and drum brakes!!)
PR90 – 1600GT – OHV.
PR91 – 1600GT – early OHV, late SOHC.
PR91G – 1600GT ‘Fastback’.
PR91W – 1600GT-R – DOHC.
PR95 – 1800GT – SOHC.
PR95N – 1800GT – ‘Saloon’. (1800 SOHC low compression, single carb, factory air-con. Air-con was a unit hung under the dash on the passenger side.)
KR10 – 1300 Wasp.
KRD10 – 1800 diesel Wasp.
KR20 – 1500 Wasp.
KR10V – 1300 Express. (Wagon.)
KR20V – 1500 Express. (Wagon.)
KR10V(PA) - 1300 Wasp panel van.

*There are more suffix codes that Isuzu used when building Belletts as well, each one meaning a different option to be added to the base spec of the individual car as it was built. These were for disc brakes, 2 or 4 door body, bench seat and column change, auto, sport spec, etc. I do have them here.... somewhere...., and will post when I find them.*

Using the model codes above, below is the build time line for each model code:
Study it closely, as it lists the start and finish of each model code, and Belletts in general.
June 63: start PRD10, PR20, KR10, KRD10, KR10V, KR20, KR20V, KR10V(PA).
April 64: start PR10, PR90.
Sept. 64: start PR80 (both GT and Coupe).
???? 65: start Auto Sedan.
April 66: start updated dash style PR10, PR20. start 2 door Sedan, PR30, PRD30, PR40.
Sept. 67: end PR90, PR80. start PR91, PR91G.
April 68: end KR10V, KR20V. start PR50.
Aug. 69: start PR91W.
Sept. 69: start PR50 SOHC, PR91 SOHC.
Nov. 70: start PR95.
Oct. 71: end PR10, PRD10, PR20, PR30, PRD30, PR40, PR91, PR91G. end KR10, KRD10, KR20, KR10V(PA). start PR60, PR95N.
Nov. 71: start GT front and rear changes. (“mask” grille & twin square tailights).
March 73: end PR91W, PR95, PR95N. (end all GT’s)
Oct. 73: end PR50, PR60. (end Sedan’s, and all Bellett’s)

Total build no’s:
2 conflicting numbers are known, but as they are so close to each other, I don't think it really matters to which which is which…
Sedan’s: 153,298. GT’s: 17,439. Total: 170,737.
Sedan’s: 154,337. GT’s: 17,573. Total: 171,910.
*below table gives second total (171,910)*

Yearly build numbers:
63 – Sedan: 6,638. GT: 0. Total: 6,638.
64 – Sedan: 29,341. GT: 691. Total: 30.032.
65 – Sedan: 23,924. GT: 2,821. Total: 26,745.
66 – Sedan: 30,753. GT: 2,456. Total: 33,209.
67 – Sedan: 19,425. GT: 1,873. Total: 21,298.
68 – Sedan: 14,273. GT: 1,693. Total: 15,966.
69 – Sedan: 14,317. GT: 2,761. Total: 17,078.
70 – Sedan: 4,937. GT: 1,461. Total: 6,398.
71 – Sedan: 4,129. GT: 1,858. Total: 5,987.
72 – Sedan: 4.229. GT: 1,523. Total: 5,752.
73 – Sedan: 2,371. GT: 436. Total: 2,807.

Footnote 1: 349 GT Fastback’s listed, but I also have info that says only 63-65 were built.
Footnote 2: 1,400 GT-R’s listed, but other info says 1,069.
Footnote 3: no indication whether total build number includes Wasp and Express, but is highly doubtful.

And to add to Dave's info, the sedan list is the same, but this goes a bit further and includes GT's:
These numbers should only be viewed as a guide, not fact as to "body no vs engine no", as cars are known of that have slightly earlier body no and a slightly later engine no. from new. This is both in sedan's and GT's.
PR20: Chassis #, Engine #.
*1st car built: PR20-4000001, 300001. (engine no's used next available number whether 1300 or 1500.)
Feb. 65: 4014973, 312683.
Sept. 65: 4042963, 337370.
Feb. 66: 4057197, 347122.
Aug. 66: 4068769, 358216.
* Nov. 67 - 1st sedan with late windscreen built. chassis number 4093588.*
May 68: 4102647, 401895. (numbers jumped to 400001 for 1600 sedan to save confusion with GT engines.)
Jan. 69: 4111534, ???.
Aug. 70: 4120013, 423733.
Oct. 70: 4132286, 440745.

PR90/91: Chassis #, Engine #.
*1st car built: PR90-4200001, 300001. (G160 spec.)
Sept. 66: 4201373, ???.
Feb. 67: 4203630, ???.
Aug. 67: 4203794, 303617.
Feb. 68: 4207378, 314408. (numbers jumped to 310001 for G161 spec.)
May 68: 4207950, 334080.
Jan. 69: 4208913, ???.
Sept. 69: 4209652, 364336.
Oct. 70: 4212582, 394414.

I wrote above that these "body no. vs engine no." jumped around slightly. Case in point is my own Feb 68 built PR91 GT.
It is body number PR91-4207291, putting it 87 bodys before the one listed here for Feb 68, but it's engine no is G161-314880, being 472 engines after the listed. I know this engine is the original for this car, as it was a complete, original and un-restored GT when I got it.
Having said this, the list is still pretty damn close to what was built when, so it's still a good guide for when your car came down the line.

Hope this all helps.

that is a very low number for a sedan here in Oz, that's for sure, as they were being built for over 12 months before we got them. it'd be safe to say that it's the lowest one still around, if not the lowest we ever saw.

but talking of low body numbers there's a PR90 I've seen around with chassis number:
PR90-4200897.
yep, the 897th built!!
that's gotta easily be the lowest GT that's left in Oz.

hi rod from tassie just checking out chassis numbers from feb 68 mine is 68gt number is 4207529 151 body past feb numbers engine is 324925 its 10517 past eng numbers i now its got original engine as in original 68 service book

Can I just say a big thank you to Dave and PR91! That is fantastic to have this info all together for us to ponder and invariably argue the finer points.

This makes it much easier for everyone to compare vehicles!

Thanks guys,
R.

Hi all,
I've been deprived of the forum for a month or so and have missed all the fun. Dave has revealed the chassis of the green machine I bought off him, PR20-4024950 is correct a mundo. It is currently in rehab getting disc front and new heart beat. It will retain its brushed on green fence paint luster for some time yet as it has grown on me some what but I did however give it a dirty great racing stripe down the middle one boring Sunday morning when I stumbled on a lonely can of white spray paint. When I get a chance I'll post a pick or two for ya Dave.

i would like to agree with previous comments.

This list is amazing and a really good reference for all us enthusiasts..

Thanks guys for the hard work.

Chris