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Massive dumpage (aka excessive lowering) https://delcohacking.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=410	Page 1 of 1

Author:	dave [ Thu May 14, 2009 1:15 pm ]
Post subject:	Massive dumpage (aka excessive lowering)
Didn't put this in the tech section because I'm offering no help on how to do this! It'd probably do hellish things to the inner tread of the rear tyres, but it does look totally cool. 1) it's sticking it up at all the Datsun 1600 drivers who think crazy rear camber is their exclusive domain and 2) it looks like it's about to take on the Japanese Touring Car Championship, circa about 1969. Thanks for the photos, Eagle-Sayama. Attachment: Bellett GTR - Eagle Sayama - 01.jpg [ 71.6 KiB \| Viewed 14423 times ] Attachment: Bellett GTR - Eagle Sayama - 02.jpg [ 85.54 KiB \| Viewed 14425 times ] Attachment: Bellett GTR - Eagle Sayama - 03.jpg [ 59.33 KiB \| Viewed 14423 times ] Attachment: Bellett GTR - Eagle Sayama - 04.jpg [ 36.16 KiB \| Viewed 14422 times ] Cheers, Dave

Author:	GTtoo [ Thu May 14, 2009 11:51 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: Massive dumpage (aka excessive lowering)
"You CAN'T be seriuos!!" that's crazy ......But has anyone noticed the fuel cap on upsidedowny so that the cover keeps falling to expose the key hole !! (pet hate). B.

Author:	JT191 [ Fri May 15, 2009 12:57 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Massive dumpage (aka excessive lowering)
I don't follow automotive fashion fads (tire tucking and 20+ inch wheels), or know what the suspension setup for a circuit car would have looked like in 1969. But I've been spending Saturdays for the last two years, with my less prestigious car, cranking the camber plates in to maximum, and setting front suspension to about 3/16 inch toe out, in preparation for Sunday races. With my limited experience, I would be more impressed if the rear wheels on Eagle's GTR were vertical, and the fronts were tilted in. I also like a little rake, as in the back slightly higher than the front.

Author:	mrflibbles [ Fri May 15, 2009 8:48 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Massive dumpage (aka excessive lowering)
thats just insane! does remind me of the old dattos. Id hate to keep up tyres to that though!

Author:	65bellett [ Tue Oct 18, 2011 1:34 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Massive dumpage (aka excessive lowering)
JT191 wrote: I don't follow automotive fashion fads (tire tucking and 20+ inch wheels), or know what the suspension setup for a circuit car would have looked like in 1969. But I've been spending Saturdays for the last two years, with my less prestigious car, cranking the camber plates in to maximum, and setting front suspension to about 3/16 inch toe out, in preparation for Sunday races. With my limited experience, I would be more impressed if the rear wheels on Eagle's GTR were vertical, and the fronts were tilted in. I also like a little rake, as in the back slightly higher than the front. I don't think the boys at Eagle were trying to look good JT. You are on the ball with the need to get plenty of caster and camber in the front end. If you are going to start driving a Bellett fast around corners you will want as much negative camber as you can get in the rear.

Author:	JT191 [ Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:30 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Massive dumpage (aka excessive lowering)
65bellett wrote: JT191 wrote: I don't follow automotive fashion fads (tire tucking and 20+ inch wheels), or know what the suspension setup for a circuit car would have looked like in 1969. But I've been spending Saturdays for the last two years, with my less prestigious car, cranking the camber plates in to maximum, and setting front suspension to about 3/16 inch toe out, in preparation for Sunday races. With my limited experience, I would be more impressed if the rear wheels on Eagle's GTR were vertical, and the fronts were tilted in. I also like a little rake, as in the back slightly higher than the front. I don't think the boys at Eagle were trying to look good JT. You are on the ball with the need to get plenty of caster and camber in the front end. If you are going to start driving a Bellett fast around corners you will want as much negative camber as you can get in the rear. Two more years of Saturday pre-race (non-Bellett) alignments since that post. And the closing race of the season was a personal index record for me for the year and lifetime. (Index is a comparison of all drivers at an event that multiplies the time by a coefficient for the class and compares it to the overall field. We have some kind of math genius in the local club that came up with this thing and it's indispensable for measuring positive and negative improvement.) Needless to say, lots of learning done in the last two years. But my experience is in a type of racing that is all high RPM 2nd (occasionally 3rd) gear panic maneuvers while winding the steering wheel from left lock to right lock and back again. And the 100+ MPH stuff on a road course seems a lot less gorilla and more delicate. More than 4 degrees camber on the driven wheels and I start seeing a lot of loss of straight line acceleration and braking, because the treaded face of the tire is no longer against the pavement. Looking at it theoretically, a better option seems to be to move the differential up and reduce the rear camber. Or, back to the 280Z rear suspension I was staring at in the salvage yard for a half hour. Like I said, all theoretical, and I might find myself doing things that I would have thought were totally insane once I get into it. But over the last two years, I got the serious problems ironed out of the non-Bellett to the point that my street setup and my race setup for this car are nearly identical, and the total suspension changeover is: 1. Move the camber plates 1 1/2 bolt position (from 1.4 degrees to 3.2 degrees). 2. 4 3/4 turns on the steering end links to compensate for the camber change and move from 0 toe to 1/8" toe out. 3. Turn rear shock knobs from one turn to 2 3/4 turns. 4. Change tires. The better the suspension tune got, the less drastic were the changes that had to be made to get the car to do what it needed to do on the track.

Author:

pearcesnr [ Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:08 am ]

Post subject:

Re: Massive dumpage (aka excessive lowering)

I must find the photo I have of the Bob Drane car from around 1967, static, though here is a shot in action, whats a datto, is it a copy of a Bellett?
Check through all the Jap builders around this time and you will see many copies from ISUZU. ie, bellett fastback - mazda r100. Florian, mazda 1500 interior. Bellett - Datsun 1600 A B C pillars, engine, trans and rear suspension. Need I Go on, Isuzu was many years ahead from all the others, they set the standard, for others to follow and I have not mentione the GT _ GTR and 117, R2 spyder, etc.

Attachments:

B Drane 1967.jpg [ 2.45 KiB | Viewed 13826 times ]

Author:

JT191 [ Tue Nov 22, 2011 11:14 pm ]

Post subject:

Re: Massive dumpage (aka excessive lowering)

I found this picture on Minkara. I think it was something like a Miata owner went with a group on a touring meet to a place called Cafe GT, and found this Bellett GT(R?) parked out in front. He took a picture because he thought it looks nice.

The rear wheel looks vertical to the ground. The ride height looks about halfway between original and the excessive example at the beginning of the thread.

Ignoring any idiosyncratic suspension tuning needed to make a Bellett do things that it was never really designed to do to begin with (and the things we all want to be able to do), this car looks right. If I were walking by, I would be thinking that this car looks healthy and well adjusted.

Attachments:

Bellett at Cafe GT.jpg [ 238.81 KiB | Viewed 13720 times ]

Author:	GTtoo [ Fri Nov 25, 2011 12:17 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Massive dumpage (aka excessive lowering)
Can I concur with you on that JT, by saying this is a very similar attitude assumed by my GT after having rear springs put in the front and new monroe gas shocks fitted all round. The shocks are slowly settling in too. Apart from some alignment tuning on the front needed it has a very stable disposition now. Rears just off vertical tucked inwards and a slightly lowered front. That's a truly horn example in the picture JT. This attitude not only enhances handling but befits the character of these awsome little numbers. B.

Author:	PR91 [ Fri Nov 25, 2011 1:12 am ]
Post subject:	Re: Massive dumpage (aka excessive lowering)
when set correctly that is!

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