Also from Nostalgic Hero 1994


OZ

Notice the GT Fastback starts in February of 1966 and runs almost through November 1970. Also notice the solid circle in September 1969, for a "minor change". That is probably to mark the change from the G161 OHV to the G161SS SOHC.

also notice 1600GT R PR 91w in the middle of the page

And that has what to do with the topic of conversation or the price of tea in China?

If you want to start another fight about what is stamped into the firewall of any of these cars, then start a new thread, and put a photograph of a fire wall serial number stamp which shows what you claim. Otherwise, act a little closer to your age and stop looking for opportunities to mess with people just because they disagree with you over a subject that none of us has proof of one way or the other.

My observation of the number of years and engines in the Fastback was because there seems to be a belief that the Fastback production was about a total of two vehicles and the run lasted maybe fifteen minutes from start to end. All of the Fastbacks I've seen recently, usually cited on this forum, have had G161 OHV. All of the Fastbacks I had seen previously were G161SS SOHC. That, to me, indicates these were greater in numbers than a handful and longer in production than the time it would take to put two cars together.
If that observation is somewhat elusive in content or context, then fine, whatever.

be cautious jt with your personal attacks on people Iwas not trying to start any fights but making an observation of the picture in the middle section of page 2 as were you about the fastback

Breathe JT. PR90 was just pointing out what was written above and not going into specifics.

What you've said about the Fastbacks reinforces what has been turned up elsewhere with people claiming a couple of hundred being produced but no one could ever state a year. 1966 to '70 is a long run for a car that has very little literature, no race history and I haven't seen any 'trade' style show pictures either.

Does anyone know why the Fastback is such an elusive beast?

R.

The gentleman seems to make observations only on one specific topic and only tagged onto the end of my posts on totally different topics.
Keep in mind that when the gentleman starts another chorus of that same old song, I double edit my response, this time removing the allusion to monkeys hurling crap and that ever popular saying "put up or...".



Theory:
Just multiplying out the numbers by comparison to the rest of the variety seems to answer some of that question. 170,000 cars (world wide or only within Japan we don't really know). 40 years time has retired about 80% of that number. What's the variety we see remaining? Lots of sedans, a large number of regular GTs, an unexpectedly large number of GT-Rs, and a small number of two door sedans.
Logically, they cranked out a lot of the B types with the solid beam rear axle for taxi cab use. Those were worn out from hard use and their status as taxi cabs alone would have made them less desirable to buy.
The GT and GT-R would have been more desirable. Looking at the two, they are essentially the same but one has 30% more power. Anyone buying would choose the GT-R whenever there was a choice.
And the GT-R has a cult status enough so that one is included with every set of little model cars. People who wouldn't buy any other Bellett or Isuzu would be looking specifically to buy a GT-R. It doesn't make sense, because the pre-1968 cars were kicking the SOHC/OHV Skyline's butt through the corners so they couldn't catch back up on the straights, and the GTX was the car with the famous victories. The GT-R emerges after the reputation was built, and after the DOHC Skylines had enough power to build their leads on the straights to make up for their losses in the corners. Looking at what actually scored victories, the pre-1968 GTs would be the more desirable.
And finally getting down to the Fastback, there were fewer, they were not available with the big engine, and they had a sort of odd shape that did not come close enough to the easily recognizable cult following car. We end up with a half dozen owned by Japanese club members and enthusiasts who show up at car shows, a couple more that are being offered for sale, and a lot of wondering about why there aren't more.

Production runs are not entirely reliable figures either, as they sometimes become confused with sales periods. For example, cars like Hillman Hunters being listed locally some 18 months after the last one was built.

My opinion (being less than an expert...I didn't even know what a Fastback was until this year!), as GT's are readily available in Japan (being at the favoured end of the range, as 'JT' pointed out above), sedans less so, Fastbacks very rarely - I'd assume (pretty safely I reckon) that they were built for a limited a period and in very low numbers, but sold over an extended period. Tales of several thousand NOS cars turning up in warehouses seems to be the stuff of urban legend. It's just too good to be true otherwise, and available cars on the market doesn't seem to support any more than a few hundred existing from new. Maybe 1966 is the prototype, the rest built in one batch much later?

2 cents.

Cheers,
Duane

re: the W argument rearing its head:

It appears this has calmed itself down; I didn't want to have to lock the thread or get silly with the naughty stick.

My 2c worth on the W in this bit of paperwork; the W is often referenced in the paperwork; the debate is whether it's on the car, as JT said above.

Obviously, this can easily be solved with some fluent Japanese, a digital camera, a lie detector machine and a small, fully working time machine. I've got one of those things; only three to go.

Cheers,

Dave

Also, on the Bellett B, it looks like they killed them off in 1969 which makes sense as the Florian came out 1968 and would have done the same job, only better (more room - paramount in a taxi cab).

Perhaps this is why Bellett sedans were offered with B-style lights around this time (like user PR10Bellett's Pr10 Bellett in the USA). Initially I thought the lights were only available on PR10 sedans like our forum-mate, however after some brochure-related investigations, it appears they were available on sedans, both standard and Deluxe concurrently with the familiar 1969-1971-spec quad-headlight grille....

It could be like the Holden Commodore SS "Special Edition" which runs leftover Pontiac G8 front bumpers and bonnets. They were left over... so stick them on a car!

Still, the would have known the Bellett B was doomed if they were developing the Florian, so they should not have had too much surplus. Perhaps the work experience kid ordered too many sets of lights?

Cheers,

Dave

Hey I also moved this to the "Bellett articles" as the other section has kind of evolved into a section for factory publications.

Cheers,

Dave

i love the way the humble Wasp is always forgotten in everything that's written about the Bellett's....
but i guess this is no real surprise, as Isuzu themselves don't think they were a "production model".... so what hope has anyonr else got of finding any concrete documentation on them!!

ohh, and the time line/layout posted seems to match the timeline i posted in another thread a while ago, so it's safe to say all this data is correct.
cheers.

Using up old parts on new cars was a well known Rootes practice so Isuzu may have picked it up from them. In 1955 Rootes bought the Singer company - in 1956 they released the first Rootes Singer Gazelle - a badge engineered Hillman Minx. While being mostly Minx, the Gazelle used the old Singer motor (which was a poorer design than the Hillman one of the same size), mainly because a bunch of the motors came with the purchase. In post-war UK there were shortages of everything.....

Cheers, Vic