View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Fri Nov 22, 2024 9:13 am



Reply to topic  [ 28 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
68/69 Model Bellet GT and Sedan 
Author Message
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 25, 2008 8:35 pm
Posts: 211
Location: Florida
Car(s): 1968 Bellett 1300 2dr, 06 Scion XA ,05 Chrysler PT Cruiser GT Turbo HO
Reply with quote
Hi Ross
I dont know where it was first registered but from my internet digging I assume it may have been Japan, because it's a right hand drive and the owner was prior military or he could have purchased it from someone that had it shipped to the states. It was last registered at an AFB in the state of new mexico in 1987 and the last valid tag on her was in 1991.
I'll be sure to get some pics posted .......

Thanks !
Mark


Thu Sep 25, 2008 11:59 pm
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2008 9:15 am
Posts: 1991
Car(s): 1965 Wasp, 1966 Bellett, 1967 Bellett, 1969 Florian, 1973 Bellett GTR, 1976 Buick Opel by Isuzu, 1978 Gemini van
Reply with quote
Man, there are heaps of Belletts in the USA! At least about five! That's a lot for a country that never got them there... and are obssessed with cars that take up a LOT more real estate!

Keep up the good work! LIke Ross said - stick a picture up in the My Belletts section as we'd be really keen to see it. We didn't get any single-headlight sedans here either, or any 1300 sedans here either, or any 2-door sedans here either!!!! So for us, what you've got is completely unique!

Cheers

Dave

_________________
My latest automotive articles and original content shared here:

https://www.facebook.com/garageofawesome

Street Machine! Unique Cars! Awesome!


Fri Sep 26, 2008 12:36 am
Profile WWW

Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2008 10:05 am
Posts: 543
Location: 12,450 miles away from the Big Warehouse in Melbourne
Reply with quote
PR91 wrote:
except... they are 69 models, not 68's.


I have a question and would like to ask it making sure to point out that I do not have as much expertise on this subject as you do, and am really more interested in your thoughts on this, because it's a theory, not a statement of fact. The question is: "Can you look at the exterior equipment and features on a Bellett and say with 100% certainty what model year it is?".

Model year cosmetic changes were supposedly started by Detroit to get people who already owned a perfectly nice car to buy a new one just because that person didn't want to look like they couldn't afford the latest model car. So they made tail fins that inched up and down and different grilles, bumpers, chrome trim, etc. But Japanese people just never seemed to be a group that would embrace the idea of a boss walking in and saying "As of Monday, we change over to the new model year. We use the parts we have been using on everything through the end of Friday, and on Monday we start using different parts.".
Even on newer Isuzu cars, whenever ordering a part from the dealership, you have to know the production date, because changes were made at any point during the year, and the parts catalog had long lists of the same part for the same model year car, that were different depending on the month the car was built. This was particularly difficult for me with my first car, because the production date was printed on the B pillar, which had been replaced on my car, and they don't issue new vehicle ID stickers, so I had to have my VIN number decoded.
And the Belletts do not have the same, long VIN numbers like modern cars, with model year, country of origin, destination market, engine size, etc. encoded into the number. With Belletts you get "model number dash production sequence". and there isn't a ID sticker or plaque with all the options that is pop riveted to the fire wall. There seems to be a total denial of the idea of a model year built into the sequential VIN number.

Also, is there a confusion of terms between "model year" and "production date". We get the next model year of cars beginning in August or September. So, right now, it is September of 2008, and they are selling 2009 model cars. My understanding is that the changeover date moved up a little each year, and it was much closer to December 31 in the past, but when would that have been in 1968 or 1969?
These cars would have actually been produced before the time that they sold. It takes time to transport the vehicle from the manufacturing plant to the sales lot. It's not a short time either, because they have to build a boat load of cars, move them from the plant to the boat, move the boat across the ocean, unload them, sort out which cars get shipped to which dealerships, put them on trucks, drive them across the country, unload them... Three or four months lead time right now, and things probably took longer in 1968 or 1969. As an example, I have two 1991 model year cars in the driveway, and the production dates are October 1990 and August 1990. If they changed over to the new model year in September or October, I would expect that they were making 1991 model cars beginning in June or July of 1990. Another example, the often argued beginning of production of the Piazza: Rumor-pedia says "late 1981", but the parts catalog begins with September of 1980, with sales in Japan beginning at about Christmas of 1980.
How much of the Bellett features were custom or less consistent? The 117 Coupes were built in the same time period as the Belletts, and while the round headlight 117's were still considered hand built, some of the technique and manufacturing methodology would have been shared. 117 owners proudly prop their hoods open whenever at a car show to show off the jagged metal edges around the hood latches, so that they can explain to the uninitiated that their cars were hand built and the notch for the hood latches were cut with tin snips, by hand. Some of that has to have bled over into the Bellett.
Some of the equipment seems to have been mixed intermittently. I had always seen the 1969 GTs pictured with the rear quarter panel vents, short hood, and the sort of triangular front turn signals. Someone also pointed out an engine change at that point too. But I have seen cars without the rear quarter panel vents, with the long hood, and with the tiny round turn signals, and the G161 engine, and the production dates work out to September of 1969. I always got the impression that the exact equipment was a little less set in stone depending on what parts they ran out of on the assembly line, or if a box of misplaced parts was found in storage.

Brochures and magazine articles are good sources of information, but they have some limitations. Now, we can make color photocopies and have color printers for our computers. Around 1982, schools were still using mimeograph machines to print those purple ink copies that smelled so terrible even after they dried, because there weren't even black and white photocopy machines. Around 1968, glossy, color brochures would have to have been made by a printing company, which would have taken weeks or months after the artwork was submitted. And there were no computers to create the layout and put the images in. Photos would take weeks to print, then to compose the layout by hand would have been an ordeal of x-acto cutouts and type setting. A brochure would have taken three months or longer from the time they started to the time they had boxes to hand out to customers. And the cars photographed would have to have been either the very first models off the line, or pre-production mock-ups. If some trim piece changed after the photo shoot or type setting of the text, it would be too late to correct the brochure.
Magazines have similar issues. Right now, the photos and text are due three months prior to the date on the magazine, and they start delivering subscriptions by mail the month before the date on the magazine. The result is that the information in the magazines is always five months after the time that the information was "news". So you see the story about the 4th of July car show in the December/Christmas issue. I don't know how much longer it took in the 1960s, but as an example, the June 1965 issue of Modern Motor has an article titled "Isuzu Bellett GT", and it would have had to have been written in December of 1964 or January of 1965, which predates production by about 21 months.
Also, magazine writers are not infallible. One good example, a review of the 1987 Piazza/Impulse claims the car is front wheel drive.


These things sort of lead me to the conclusion that model year and equipment are a little less certain with Belletts than with other cars, and we aren't going to see things like two Ford Mustang fanatics standing next to a car with an argument like "That's a 1965.", "No, that's a 1966, and I'll bet when you open the hood it will have a six barrel carburetor instead of a four barrel..."

Maybe I'm way off, but I would like to ask the experts to comment.


Sat Sep 27, 2008 11:52 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2008 9:15 am
Posts: 1991
Car(s): 1965 Wasp, 1966 Bellett, 1967 Bellett, 1969 Florian, 1973 Bellett GTR, 1976 Buick Opel by Isuzu, 1978 Gemini van
Reply with quote
I think we need to unleash the powers of 'PR91' to answer that one!

I think the black grille/flat tail light model is normally referred to as a '1969 model' but as it says above, 2ldohc Ross's 1969 was indeed first rego'ed in 1968. Why oh why didn't they refer to them as (or better still stamp them with) MY69 or MY70 or whatever - both Subaru and Harley officially have MY-model year designations. Although I insure vehicles for a living and sometimes you can get into a stand up argument with people when they say "IT'S A 2009 MODEL!" and I'm like yeah, so it's a 2008-MY09 and then they have a sad when their policy comes out and it says, "2008" on their paperwork. I normally tell them; unless you've got access to a time machine, it's a 2008-build, 2009-model!

Anyway, that was just my 2 cents worth!

Although PR91 Brett may be able to shine more light on this one, I imagine you're right about ongoing changes. The Japanese are way to efficient (and Aussies are way to 'resourceful') to just change models overnight. Our economies of scale are very small in Australia and probably aren't much different to Isuzu's situation back in the 1960s, and even now running changes are introduced, then heralded as a major innovation on the 'new model', even though such a change (usually an unseen one - bigger swaybars, different engine bits etc) may have been introduced months before the release date of the new model!

So I'm hearing what your saying, I just can't shed much light on it - only agree! It sucks!

Actually, I've 'changed' the years of my cars.... the brown sedan and the GT may have been built in either 1967 or 1968, while the Wasp should definitely be 1965 (as all the Aussie Wasps were), while the white sedan is an early model, but has the cream grille badge rather than the solid black grille badge of the pre 1965s... so now I just like to think of them as sequential; 1965=Wasp, 1966=early white sedan, 1967=rat sedan (with hex-lights), 1968=GT. It might not be accurate, but it's accurate enough for me! And it feels... 'even'.

Anyway, I've bleated on enough without actually being helpful - Brett? Breeeeettttt where are you??!??!?!


Cheers !

_________________
My latest automotive articles and original content shared here:

https://www.facebook.com/garageofawesome

Street Machine! Unique Cars! Awesome!


Sun Sep 28, 2008 8:22 am
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2008 10:21 pm
Posts: 528
Location: Darwin NT
Car(s): Isuzu Bellett, VG Commodore Ute, Custom Chopper
Reply with quote
Hey guys, my Bellett is registered as a 1968.
Isuzu Bellett Deluxe Sedan
4 Door
1500cc
Automatic
Chassis Number: PR20 4073856
Still got original motor in it too (but rebuilt in 2001 by myself) Engine Number: G150361325
Registration Plate: "XTINCT"
Hex rear tail lights ( just got some new/old stock from Dick in Netherland.
Twin Headlight front end with aluminium grill


Tue Oct 07, 2008 3:23 am
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2008 1:22 pm
Posts: 603
Location: Adelaide, Australia
Car(s): 1968 Isuzu Bellett Deluxe (Polynesian Blue), 1974 Datsun 240z, 1970 Datsun Fairlady SRL311, 1966 Prince Skyline
Reply with quote
Thanks redback for adding that extra info. That chassis number is over 30 thousand cars before mine yet they were both in country the same year!

Good plate too!

Cheers,
Ross.

_________________
1966 Prince Skyline GT-B
1968 PR20 Bellett Deluxe (flat lights)
1970 SRL311 Datsun Fairlady
1971 S30 Datsun 240Z - Race car
1972 S30 Datsun 240Z

For more info, articles and pictures visit http://GarageofAwesome.com.au


Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:52 am
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2008 12:20 am
Posts: 23
Car(s): PR90 gt x2 PR 20 x1 Wasp x1
Reply with quote
Hi
Our name seems to keep popping up re Bellett's . We were the second owners of Steve's soon to be race car !!!!!!! It was originally white The 1 st. owner was also from Capalaba . Purchased new March 1970 from Willies Motors Brisbane it came to us with books etc .When sold to Steve it was stock as a rock except for 165 X 13 Radials instead of 640x 13 Dunsafe tyres that were on it when we got it .When purchased we had 3 x GT'S 1 x Series "B" Sport sedan 6 other sedans , 1 GT Rag top & a Wasp as well as a Kingswood & a Landcruiser to tow the boat so some had to go . The white sedan was bought by us in approx 1976/77 used as every day driver as was the GT .Some had to go so white sedan went to MEXICO Carol got the S---'S with series "B" one day & sold it for $ 600.00 Never to be seen again 1 st wasp sold 4 sedans junked for spares another sedan sold 67 mod went to Toowoomba & 5 more came home 2 weeks later including a PR90. from waldo's dad ,Rag top went to Carols brother & from there to Toowoomba the rest came & went with monotonous regularity 42 vehicles in total .Now down to civilised number 2 x PR90 1966 GT'S 1 x PR 20 1966 1/2 sedan ,1 x wasp & some spare bits& pieces so Brett stay out of my garage.
No space for extras.


Moral of the story no matter how hard you try you can never get Bellett' out of your blood

cheers ken


Mon Dec 15, 2008 6:43 am
Profile

Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2008 9:09 am
Posts: 43
Car(s): BellettGT, Wasp, Florian, Piazza, Jackaroo
Reply with quote
I have a late Bellett with short bonnet & tail vents; chassis #4130391.
It also has a "compliance plate" to comply with the changed regulations.

As for GTs, I have 2 both manufactured May 1968 but generally referred to as 1969ers (a local delay problem), hence my "IZU069" handle.
Chassis were (PR91) #4207685 #4207528 (with G161 OHVs #327360 & #324043 respectively).


Tue Dec 16, 2008 8:18 am
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 28 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 15 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Designed by ST Software for PTF.